Behind the scene: Fantasy App, Waves of SexTech, the Hackathon & Sex Education

This is the translated part of the interview given in 2018 to UNIT.Citizen.

Update: Mentioned in the article “Fantasy” app (the dating app for couples & solos) was closed at the beginning of 2020. On Feb. 23d 2020 Andrew launched in public beta built from scratch new product “Fantasy Match”.

An entrepreneur and startup founder, Andrew Yaroshenko loves to speak about sex and related topics. In 2016, he partnered with a group of co-thinkers to create SEX.Prostir — Ukrainian educational project about human sexuality, arranged as a series of TED-like lectures. In 2017, the Ukrainian entrepreneur organized America’s first SexTech hackathon in New York. And he launched Fantasy — the dating app for open-minded couples and singles.

For the purpose of this exclusive interview for UNIT.Citizen, Alexander Mikhedov met Andrew Yaroshenko to learn more about SexTech, ask whether Fantasy is coming to Ukraine and find out why a robot will never reign supreme in a human bedroom.

You’re the co-founder of New Strategies Group, a digital marketing agency. After nine years dedicated to digital, you moved to SexTech and SexEd. Was it an easy transition?

This was a challenge! In fact, I am still in the process of transitioning.

I love the things we did (and still do) in the agency. Actually, inside the agency we combined three business models: consulting, IT production and digital marketing. I really enjoy making strategies, creating products and using marketing technologies, my company pioneered the creation of value-added digital services (we say we do startups for brands) for global consumer brands in the Russian-speaking market.

We’ve always cared about the practicable values we could offer to each brand’s target audience, and thus developed tailor-made products. For Ukrainian Huggies, for instance, it’s been SvitMam — a mommies’ social network. Meanwhile, the product we’ve developed for Russian o.b. really boosted women’s confidence. I can continue with the list. In fact, what we did was deploy IT and startup techniques in the sphere of marketing. I believe in this marketing approach: making products that work as brand “ambassadors” that convey company and it’s brand values. Combining these products with CRM / Loyalty programs withing other technological elements makes an impact on brands.

After the crisis when companies started cutting their budgets for creating products I began thinking about the things I’d love to do next, being in the prime of my entrepreneurial life. Because building amazing products is my major motivation.

Proceeding to MarTech could be logical. But then I had an insight: I saw a SexTech market was dawning, and it had very few good, crazy fellows like me in it. My personal knowledge of Roman Sidorenko just added fuel to the fire, and it all came together there: his published Manifesto, my personal care and inquisitiveness in this field, and the fact that for SexTech was just starting.

And how did it all start for you?

I started speaking and writing about sex in 2014, but this was on a sporadic, case by case basis. Sometimes I also commented on movies and series that “stoked my fire,” so to speak. I was so interested in the topic that I even took a course in sexology at the Kyiv Institute of Modern Psychology. At that time I saw Kinsey movie — about a man who was a doctor, professor, and outstanding sexologist. Watching America of the 1950s, you can see that things have changed little over the past several decades.

Modern society has two huge gaps when it comes to sexual relationships: when it comes to pleasuring their partner, men often lack the skills and the proper attitude, while women often struggle with both shame and ignorance when it comes to their own sexual anatomy. Technology has helped us ”fill” the void we’ve inherited from our pasts due to various historical reasons. I suggest you read the book The Ethical Slut, whose author, Janet Hardy, I was lucky to have met in person. Today the failure involved with “learning and doing” has become more shameful than just “being ashamed.”

The SexTech industry is predicted to have a bright future. How would you define SexTech?

These are hi-tech products that, in one way or another, create value in the sphere related to sexuality.

Technology has already transformed so many areas of our lives; it’s time for it to transform the realm of sex. People turn to technology to find something new and unique. But in my opinion, true “newness” must come from a new understanding, a reinterpretation of the categories and prohibitions that we have inherited “by default.”

There are many examples of contemporary norms that used to be suppressed in the past. In technological businesses, the one who diverges from the norm is typically the one who finds success. The venture business is not about the norm; on the contrary, it prizes risk. The angels and funds in the field of SexTech run big risks. And their primary fear is not of the eventual loss of funds; it is about their reputation and other related issues. Yet they see the ample opportunity this market has to offer.

Is there anything that can change the general population’s attitude toward this market? Yes, there are visionaries who can lead the way.

Today’s global SexTech market — what does it look like?

I consider everything related to porn and other entertainment the first wave of SexTech. We’re now facing the second wave, which, in a smooth and natural manner, raises and introduces new product categories.

For the second wave, I single out the following categories:

· Sexual Wellness
· Sex Education
· Female Pleasure
· E-commerce & “Internet of things”
· Communication
· All sorts of services (and their overlap with MedTech)

Check out in detail about all three waves at “Waves of SexTech and Why They Are Worth 300 Billion”. I believe that the second wave of SexTech is strongly led by female entrepreneurs, that’s why “Future of SexTech is Female”.

As of today, the number of projects in the second and third waves is still very small. What does exist involves AI, machine learning, blockchain and other technologies for the first wave mostly? I have already presented my overview of categories, with examples. The most conservative calculations of the market where Fantasy operates say that it’s worth a billion dollars.

Why have you chosen to monetize sex?

Well, lots of companies use sex to make money. Look at their marketing campaigns — everyone knows that sex sells.

Fantasy is in the market of human desires, and in that regard, we don’t stand out from Tinder or any other dating apps. However, we are not in competition with classic dating apps. The essence of Fantasy lies in its ability to match people based on mutual desires.

Everyone who comes to classic dating has a particular goal in mind. This may include sex, relationships, love or something else. Fantasy is an app for couples and singles who are open to new experiences and relationships. They’ve closed the book on “vanilla” sex and now care about people and details. They want to mindfully create their own story.

Thus I would not say we are cashing in on sex. We create a rather unique experience by leveraging data and helping people match based on fantasies. But of course, we plan on making a profitable app. We have several models of monetization, with subscription as the primary method.

What is the key difference between Fantasy and Tinder or Pure?

Imagine logging into Tinder and writing “I want a threesome.” I don’t think you’ll find many people rushing to join you. On the contrary, this is the most popular fantasy in our app. You don’t have to search hard to find people like that on here. I like the Pure app, especially their niche and the way the product is handled, but speed is not our key factor. We focus on helping users make the right connections.

Ideally, I would say that we are creating a sex-positive space guided by a set of rules and etiquette. We help actualize desires, while users take responsibility for the “physical” fulfillment of their fantasies.

As far as the product is concerned, our product is tooled only for fantasies and everything related to them — no other mobile app offers this. We also distinguish between public and private fantasies. Public fantasies are open for everyone, and only after a mutual match secret fantasies open up. Other apps that deal with “classic dating” usually stay far away from our niche. Meanwhile, we go beyond “classical” dating: in our app, you can communicate with people who share your fantasies, and publish your content (stories) right there in the app.

For example, Tinder has already announced a shift in product positioning: with their new changes, they are starting to resemble a social network for teenagers, in contrast to a dating app focused on establishing relationships.

Our marketing targets a specific audience in the “non-monogamous” niche. There are more than 100 million non-monogamous people worldwide. They follow different forms of non-monogamous relationships (polyamory, open relationships, open marriage, monogamish, swinging, kink and other forms of alternative relationships). You may learn more from our sex-positive blog Fantasy.

In general, Fantasy is a mix of love, product, and technology.

Where did you get the idea for the app? Is there a personal story behind it?

As an entrepreneur, I noticed the potentials of the niche. At that time, most of the market was occupied by BDSM and other “black-style” designed projects. Regular people from the street who are just looking for experiments — especially if this is their first time — usually fear to mix up with these “dungeons.”

When the idea for the app occurred to me, I was inspired by Feeld (an app for searching for threesome partners). I liked many aspects of the product, including marketing. But today it is no longer the only service in this area.

Yes, in some ways this can be called a personal story. I believe in sincere relationships between people. I believe they are based on mutual desires and feelings, and that common fantasies lay the groundwork for attraction. Our ambitious plan is to become the Hinge for ethically non-monogamous people, to be the top product in this niche.

Does Fantasy come with a global mission?

We want to see more happy & connected people in this world. From a technical standpoint, sex is very easy to get — all you need is two adults who know the right way to “rub noses” and other body parts. But do we want to have sex with everyone who just says yes? We definitely don’t.

Everyone goes through multiple stages of sexual development. The first stage is learning and experimenting with one’s own body. The next stage is defining one’s individual fantasies and mastering the skills of sensuality, intensifying it. When you are turned on even without body contact, this is it. At this stage it is essential that you understand and define these turn-ons so that, after a while, this dashboard is gradually turned into the flight control platform, so to speak. For real sex, physical interaction is not mandatory — as they say, you don’t need a shuttle to fly into space.

Today Fantasy is an American story. Why the USA, and how did you happen to get there?

Actually, Fantasy was launched in Moscow in the beginning of 2017. The app’s beta version had around five hundred users who were testing it, providing feedback and finding bugs.

After making it into the finals of the startup contest at Riga Digital Freedom Festival, we found our first incentive to opt for the American sector. The 500 Startups team chose Fantasy for a personal pitch and coaching. That’s how I met the residents of one of the world’s best accelerators. The guys weighed in on the project’s prospects and suggested I get traction in the US as early as possible.

America is the world’s largest market in terms of funds and number of users, and half of our audience lives here. Before the trip, I had a couple of proposals from European accelerators, but I made up my mind to set off to the States without making European stops. I had the contacts of some American entrepreneurs but zero knowledge of the local market. I started looking for a startup program that could help me find footing. I talked to people from New York’s Starta Accelerator, and we found a common language. But then it became obvious that no program could help me solve my most pressing task — proving that there was an audience and a demand for Fantasy. I decided I would just come to New York and see the situation on site, and I guess in my case it did work out.

Does that mean you’ve done all of this without the help of incubators or accelerators?

Yes, but at the same time no. The value of incubators and accelerators lies in their providing access to their network, helping entrepreneurs focus on principal processes, and on adapting to and integrating into the local ecosystem. But the right moment is also essential. I knew my goals and I had my product. What I needed was a better understanding of my target audience. I needed to communicate with it. No accelerator would have done this for me.

On the other hand, I’m grateful to the friends and businessmen who helped with my first steps in America. A special “thanks” goes to the Ukrainian community in New York and San Francisco. For me, any incubator or accelerator is, first of all, people united by an entrepreneurial spirit. These are people who want the chance to share their experiences. They want to help others and improve their own ventures, and they provide access to a wide range of skills and knowledge in a very short period of time. This is above price. I’m striving to become a part of a team like this, so my story with accelerators is definitely to be continued.

Here you can also see another interesting niche: SexTech is growing in demand. Projects related to sexuality are actually coming out of the shadows, and their creators are looking for support and expertise. The world so far lacks a designated SexTech incubator. But this is what I’ll be thinking about (laughs).

You organized America’s first SexTech hackathon (wave 2) in New York. Is America really so liberal and open-minded toward issues of technology, sex and sexual education?

In terms of said issues, Americans are light years ahead of post-Soviet states. However, they are definitely not the most progressive nation when it comes to sex and sexual education. America is full of taboos, bans and straight-laced views. Actually, it’s like most other states.

The idea of arranging a hackathon occurred to me before going to America. At first, I wanted to hold one in Kyiv. But when I was in New York, it hit me that it was the right place for the hackathon. The challenge was turning me on, so I started. I can tell you for sure that today New York is the hub of the SexTech world; it might be the city with the biggest number of thought leaders and entrepreneurs engaged in SexTech’s second wave.

With this hackathon, we wanted to prove that SexTech is a billion-dollar industry that is more than just porn and entertainment. We wanted to bring the community of people together, to encourage anyone interested in joining the product development process and finding like-minded people. We wanted to give female entrepreneurs the chance to be heard; the hackathon, which targeted women-identified people, was covered by TechCrunch, Mashable, VICE, New York Magazine and other media. VICE, for instance, raised a topic that is relevant to the entire market of SexTech’s second wave: our projects cannot directly promote their products or services. Thus there comes a question: how can we become more aware, sexually educated individuals when everything related to the word “sex” is taboo?

The hackathon was a real challenge for me. I had to find partners, assemble a team and bring the community in. We had an expert panel that featured entrepreneurs, venture investors and sexologists who shared their opinions on the future of sexuality and SexTech. The main prize (a free month at Manhattan’s Galvanize co-working space for 5 people) went to the group advancing the idea of a game devised to break down the sex communication barrier between children and parents.

You’re trying to increase sexual awareness. Can you tell me about your SEX.Prostir project?

SEX.Prostir is an educational initiative focused on sexuality and arranged in a TED format. A group of volunteers got together and decided to start a good project about sex. I was one of the project’s advocates and supporters. The abbreviation S.E.X. stands for the project’s three main values: Science, Education, eXperience. The project’s mission is to improve sex education, and its motto is “More knowledge — less shame.”

The market is almost void of products related to sexual education. We call it boosting sexual awareness. Why is the word “sex” associated with taboo, and not growth and evolution? We decided to improve this.

As the project organizers, we were tasked with choosing the right speakers to educate our audience in the field of sexuality. We’ve already had lectures from health professionals, psychologists, genetic scientists, political analysts, sexologists, culture experts and other professionals. The first SEX.Prostir was held in May 2016. So far there have been four events in Kiev, one in Kharkov and one in Odessa. In Odessa we were happy to have Dr.Zhana Vrangalova, one of the US’s best-known experts and thought leaders in the field of sex science, who spoke about different aspects of casual sex.

Was SEX.Prostir organized to help promote Fantasy?

No. I am active participant in both projects, but these are unrelated projects. Together with the SEX.Prostir team, we want to change our society’s attitude toward sexuality. Fantasy is an American business endeavor that is separate from our Ukrainian market.

And for the finale: what’s your advice to a SexTech startup newbie?

Don’t be scared. Gain experience. Learn the hard way. Try. Make the product, and show it to the largest possible number of prospective customers to get their feedback. Product/market fit and its continuous calibration are the crucial elements of every startup’s early stage.